Personally what I think would be worthy of discussion, is the progress you've made on your Nightingale so far and on Sean Kinkades full-size ornithopter project (a few pictures on either would be grand).
With that being said, I see nothing special about Denis Curry's ornithopter.
Looking at the video, I'd say he'd need about 3 to 5 times more flap rate to get airborne. Also, he has no way to control his craft if he does get aloft, no tail, no way to shift his body weight because of the reciprocating ROG platform design,,, top heavy, he could topple over like a domino if his wheels stopped abruptly.
Anyways I'll agree with you, an engine powered ornithopter first and then we'll tackel the "BirdMan" approach at a later time.

How about designing a human-powered ornithopter and installing an engine on it? I always wondered why they did not put a motor in the human-powered 'Karura' ornithopter? This craft looks like it would just leap off the ground with an engine in it, Curious very curious indeed,,, Willi

I will discuss Nightingale when I start the testing. It'll be much more interesting then since each test will be telling us more about what works and what doesn't !

Re: Denis Curry's design.......I think he was just testing the general concept and flapping mech for thrust to start with then he probably planned to add a tail etc and redesign for an attempted lift-off. I wonder if he's done anything further in the last 25 years. Of course, a design that is a good thrust producer is a long way from being a good lift producer and may , in fact, never fly. [ some of my models are in this category :( ]

I think the 'Karura' ornithopter looks a bit too 'spindly' to carry an engine though I agree that a human-powered orni that is built with composites could be successful if it was changed to engine power.

Cheers,
Patricia

The only human-powered design I'd think would even have the slightest chance of working, would be a pedal-powered, X-wing configuration. Possibly have the foot pedals attached to a flywheel for a even flap cycle. And then try out this clap and peel wing technology the Mentor ornithopter used :)

In reality, my X-wing wouldn't work any better than Denis Curry's design but it be the way I'd go. Willi

Question for you Willi. Do you think that two pairs of wings (dragonfly) as opposed to one pair of wings (birds) would be more effective when it comes to human carrying ornithopters?
Thanks, H.P.

Ronn,
I think their is no future for 2 winged ornithopters. They are inherently dangerous. In addition to the pilot heave everyone is talking about, a engine stall out near TDC or BDC could result in a fatality,,, just my opinion.

Your 2 winged project is doomed as well, the design below would have a much better chance of working (if it would work at all). A 4 winged craft with a tripod landing base. The wing trust is well above the CG so gravity is stabilizing the craft, Along' with the aerodynamic controls.

Your flap amplitude would also be cut in half so you maintain the 15hz flap rate that you envision. Willi

That is a more proven design for hovering like the U of T project, but I would like level flight like a bird. The kind of hovering that I intend to do is more on the bases of softening and shortening my landings. Like how a bird hovers for that split second as it gets it's talons in position to land on a branch. Or just long enough to take a piece of bread out of your hand. I do not intend to maintain a constant hover like a helicopter. That would burn to much of my power, I look at the Hummingbird because it has mastered that part of flying efficiently. I would like to hover when needed only, the 15 Hz would be put in play for this purpose, but level flight would be around 5 Hz hopefully. Through testing I will find out what works and what does'nt. Another question Willi, with the wing area that I intend on using can you calculate the amount of wing load I would encounter. Make sure you break it down into laymens terms for me.

Thanks, H.P.

>>,,,can you calculate the amount of wing load I would encounter. Make sure you break it down into laymens terms for me,,,>>

You'll have to ask the engineers for the wing load calculations as for I'm just a innovated modeler, they'll need to know the total weight of your aircraft and wing area. As a modeler, I use use trail and error to achieve success, not math.

Below, is a final concept drawing of the proposed 4 winger. I would consider building a 4 foot version of it using a nitro powered motor. Flap angle would be increased to 80 degrees per wing. Willi

Ronn,
On second thought, I do not believe an exact wing load calculation is possible,,, too many variables to factor in for wing load calculations. Willi

The reason that I ask is because I was looking into getting this giant scale rc model builder to build me some wings. The wings that he builds can be made to what ever size I need and they can be modified for my purpose. And I know that they can be strong but are they strong enough is the question. I will have to find out the wing load on those wings and some other numbers to be sure.

H.P.

Like a bird,
In being pessimistic about your chances of hovering I suspect perhaps we have been talking about different things.Large birds, eg. pelicans, on landing doing a few quick strokes at very high angles of attack, generating a last grab of lift and lots of drag. Inefficiency is good in landing; not so good in taking off !

This is not quite hovering as they do still have forward speed. As they pitch head-up the stroke turns more horizontal giving the wing forward speed even on the last downstroke as their feet touch the ground or the water.

Birds that perch on branches or poles etc. have a more elegant procedure, zooming up from below the branch in a trajectory timed, like a human trapeze artist, to come to a stop at the exact time and place required to clamp their feet on the perch. I have often wondered if we could do this with aircraft, employing something like an aircraft carrier siiting atop a tall tower.

Murray