Thanks to the input and comments given to me by people who are on top of their game like Willi, Patricia, and Scott. I was able to go back to the lab and test a few things, crunch a few numbers, and improve some designs. So this is where I am at, the weight of my orni remains pretty close to my original calculations but my flapping rate has decreased a bit to 6 - 15 beats per sec. I'm also using a stiff wing design with a slight pitch movments on the down and up strokes. Hey Willi you where right about the tail position but I am still going to stick with V-tail out back cause it looks cool. Everything in the drawing is to scale the wing is 2 inches shorter than the final design though.

Ronn, good luck with your design. Willi

Check this out guys, Denis V. Curry has a very nice human powered prototype and he has achieve forward motion from rest with it. http://ovirc.free.fr

Also take a look at what my become the next robot on Mars. Dr. Robert Michelson and his team have made a chemical based ornithopter that gets 10 Hz now and will be able to do 60 hz later. I was able to achieve more than 30 Hz with an electric ornithoper so far but I do not need that kind of Hz with my project. But it is good to see that 60 Hz can be achieved just in case. Enjoy !
http://avdil.gtri.gatech.edu/RCM/RCM...erProject.html

Before anyone goes to the trouble of building wings on the lines of Denis Curry's design, I suggest constructing a "rings" gymnastic apparatus. Set a target for flight duration then try to support ones weight on arms outstretched for that length of time.
Sorry to be a wet blanket but I remain unimpressed by the flapping arm approach.
Murray

Does anyone know if he has done any experimenting recently. I noticed that his device first self-propelled itself in the 1970's. Also noticed that he bends his legs to move the wings through the upstroke then both straigtens his legs and pulls with his arms on rods/cables ? attached to the wings to flap the wings down. [he must have been in good physical condition !!]

Well Patricia I do not know if he did anything lately, but a year or so ago I did ask him if he could build me a pair of wings. But he could not at the time cause he was busy with his own rig. At that time I too was trying to build a human powered orni, but after testing I decided to use an electrical motor instead. Longer lasting, more consistant and faster strokes but still easy on the environment.

Patricia has pointed out some wires I had missed. So I am relieved that Denis Curry didn't expect to take all the weight on his outstretched arms. If after takeoff he intended to rotate his body horizontal, hang glider style that, with the foot action, might have been OK for an augmented glide device, something on the lines of the wing-suit. Without a clean fairing and much greater span though he is never going to fly level.
Murray.

Hello Willi,
Yes, I posted the link to Denis Curry's website a while ago but it didn't trigger the conversation that it has this time around. I was disappointed then because it's an interesting design and worthy of discussion though I personally think that engine rather than human powered is the way to go.
Cheers,
Patricia